dungarees - In Our Own Words

After my latest single ‘dungarees’ came out, me and my friend Amelia Mandeville, author of Every Colour of You and The Missing Pieces of Me, chatted for a bonus episode of my podcast all about writing, In Our Own Words.

Below is the transcript of the first half of the podcast, but if you’d like to listen to the whole episode, you can do so here.

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Alice Ashcroft: Hi and welcome back to In Our Own Words, the podcast, all about how we use our words to tell our stories. This is the first bonus episode I'm doing in the podcast to celebrate the launch of my new single dungarees. And so today I'm joined by Amelia Mandeville, who you may know from her amazing books, her YouTube channel, or as a guest from the last series of, in our own words. So, thank you so much for coming on Amelia and agreeing to help me with my shameless. Self-Promotion.

Amelia Mandeville: That's all right. I mean, it's actually really weird because it's kind of like full-circle because it was what, like four months ago that you interviewed me about my book and then we just became friends since then, so now it's like full-circle. It's actually quite fun

Alice Ashcroft: Because that's how we met and now we speak like most days like we've become really good friends’ sort of through lockdown, which has been really fun and really nice. But now I'm sort of like really nervous about this kind of level of formality. Again. It's really weird.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. It's kind of cool, because it's quite fitting for the podcast that, you know, we became friends through our writing kind of really. Yeah.

Alice Ashcroft: But also, like really different types of writing. So, you come up with like sort of very sort of long-form novels, I guess. And then I write like, sort of like little things, and then yeah, it's just very different.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. Well, that's why I'm interested. Because obviously I know what writing a book is like, but I have no idea what the whole process is with writing a song. And that's what I'm here to talk about.

Alice Ashcroft: It's weird because when I look at, sort of, when I'm reading books, I'm sort of like, how do you go from like this idea to writing so much? Whereas when I have an idea for a song it's like, Oh, okay, I'll write about it. And I only have to fill like three minutes. Like, I don't know, just how. People can feel whole books with their ideas. I think it's really, it's weird. It's just different, I guess.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. I was going to say like when I write books, I kind of see it in my mind it's like. Like really visualize, like if I imagined it being a movie, like, do you kind of see that almost like a music video? Do you imagine a music video that'd be perfect? Go with your song or is that.

Alice Ashcroft: I don't know. I've never really thought about that. I think maybe I try not to because they're so expensive. I can't make them, but I don't know. It's weird because yeah, I guess I think it depends on what I'm writing about. So, there's definitely been, so I've written some songs about books from like a different book of different character perspectives, but when it's like my own life and I'm writing about that, I guess the film that's in my head is just my memory. Oh, that sounds pretentious. But like the film that's in my head is the memories that I have. And I'm just sort of playing that back so, in ‘dungarees’ in one of the verses, I say, it's just like this little moment where Fergus comes home from work. Fergus is my partner. I don’t know who doesn't know that listening?

Amelia Mandeville: I know that.

Alice Ashcroft: You know that.

But when he comes home from work, I'm like Lily, my dog, jumps up at him and he always says hello to her first. And I like, part of me is like, “oh, come on. I'm right here”. But also, I kind of love it because he never wanted a dog. And now we have the dog like they're downstairs right now on the sofa together. And it's just really sweet. So, I suppose those moments kind of play in my head and then I turned that into the song.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. I like that. That's cool. I mean, do you ever, I know like in certain films, I don't know why I keep relating it to films, but when there's like, you know, like a sad mood, a sad moment they're sitting in the car and it's raining and then there's like a really sad song. Do you ever kind of visualize your song and you're like, oh yeah, that would be that part of the movie or is it just kind of, you just don't think about it too much and it just kind of write what happens. I have no idea how writing a son works.

Alice Ashcroft: I don't think I do that, but I kind of, I'm definitely one of those people that when I'm on a train and it's raining, I imagine that I'm in a music video. I think so many people do. No, I don't think so. Although I would love to have my music in a film. Like I think that would be really cool to have that happen like have because you get those songs, don't you? Where people associate them so strongly with like moments from films.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. I get like that. I mean, because I do some of my writing listening to music. So sometimes when I'm looking over what I've written, I will think of the music that I've listened to when I was writing that I get obsessive though. Like I listened to the same music again and again and again. So, it's just wedged in my head.

Alice Ashcroft: Do you accidentally end up writing lyrics from the song in your work though?

Amelia Mandeville: I've actually done that quite a few times. I really liked doing that. I love reading books that talk about songs and I'd like, listen to it while I'm reading books. But its copyright is really hard to actually, a lot in both books. A lot of lyrics have been taken out. I think I've managed to keep life a few. ' think more so in every color of you the missing piece of me, but oh, I'm missing piece of me. I'm pretty sure he was singing a whole song but copyright, which I didn't know about until I became published.

Alice Ashcroft: There's a book by Holly Borne which one of the lyrics in my song was like, I'm going to say inspired by so that I don't get flagged for copyright, which in that book I think, I can't remember which book it was, that's terrible. I should know that. But she's talking about, sort of like this abusive relationship or this like unhealthy relationship.

Amelia Mandeville: Oh, Is It All the Places I've Cried, is it that one?

Alice Ashcroft: Yes! It is that one. But she, this female protagonist in the book, she kind of says, I don't want to be swept off my feet. I want to feel the ground beneath them. And that was kind of one of the things that sort of inspired the song. Because it's like, yeah, obviously like at the beginning of the relationship, it's kind of fun to have that kind of a whirlwind. You're not sure what's going to happen, but after a while, you want someone you can depend on and someone that you can rely on.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah, no, definitely. I think we all kind of want this fairy tale love story as much as we like to believe we don't, everyone wants it. Don't they? I think like, especially maybe for us, because we are writers. We do kind of possibly romanticize things a little bit too much. I don't know about you, but I definitely do.

Alice Ashcroft: For sure. It's like, I'm mad at Disney.

Amelia Mandeville: Literally, I was so obviously I know a little bit about what ‘dungarees’ is, but for like obviously the people who are listening, what is your whole reasoning behind ‘dungarees’? Like why did you write it and what does it mean to you if you were just going to describe it?

Alice Ashcroft: These are good questions. So, to me, it's all about kind of like I say, finding that person or that thing, because it isn't a relationship for some people, it's their friends for some people, it's their work or… Everyone sort of finds that thing that they want that comfort in. And so, for me, that's my relationship with different people, but this song specifically is about Fergus, my partner, and sort of how happy and comfortable… this sounds so cheesy, but how complete you feel when you're with them. And I guess so I sort of compared it to the ‘dungarees’ in the hook which goes “I'll wear your smile every day, like a pair of dungarees”, because as much as he sometimes gets on my nerves, and I'm sure I get on his, we do make each other laugh every day. We do sort of just feel comfortable around each other. And I do wear ‘dungarees’ every day.

Amelia Mandeville: If not today. I mean…

Alice Ashcroft: Honestly, this is really terrible. Well, because every interview that I've done for this, which makes it sound like a lot, I think it's like three or four, but every interview I've done for this, I've not actually been wearing ‘dungarees’. I'm so off-brand.

Amelia Mandeville: I currently don't have dungarees, but this was as close as I could get today. Even though my face looks a mess, my hair isn't brushed, but I made an effort with a blue denim jumpsuit.

Alice Ashcroft: It's good, it's a good look.

Amelia Mandeville: I like that. I mean, how does Fergus feel that he's had a song written about him? I mean, I think you've written a few, haven't you?

Alice Ashcroft: I think that's the issue when you've been with someone and I should know how long we've been together. Seven years? I don't know. He would know to the day he's very good at dates and I'm terrible. But when you've been with someone for like years, it's really hard to write about the relationships I was in before, because there were like two of them and I was an angsty 16-year-old at the time. So, it's kind of like, it's the only sort of relationship I have to write about apart from like friendships and family, which there are definitely songs about that I've written. But I don't know how he feels about it because sometimes I'll take, like I said, inspiration from like books and characters in films and that kind of thing. Hey, maybe your characters will get a song one day.

Amelia Mandeville: Maybe Zoe! Interesting. Or oh my gosh no, I mixed them up. It's not Zoe Interesting. No, it is Zoe. Interesting. I'm getting confused. And then it's Willow and Dustin. Oh my gosh. I should know my books better.

Alice Ashcroft: You've written so many books. That's the issue.

Amelia Mandeville: Those big two, too many.

Alice Ashcroft: And all the other ideas you have in your head as well.

Amelia Mandeville: Yes, yes. Over say all we have are ideas stirring up in there.

Alice Ashcraft: But I don't know how Fergus feels about it. I don't. I think if I was writing something like really personal, I mean, there have been songs that I've written that are very personal about things that have happened to the both of us, but I've always kind of come at it from like my perspective. I've never sort of, I don't know. It's always been how I feel about the situation. I think a really good example of this is Lily Allen's autobiography, which I think I've mentioned before on the podcast as well.

Amelia Mandeville: I know, I haven't read it. Yeah, I should. It's so open, isn't it?

Alice Ashcroft: Like she's brutally open. But she starts the book, because it's so open, she starts the book probably because of wanting to cover herself legally, but she starts it by saying everything I say in this book is from my perspective, this is my version of what happened. If you ask someone else who's mentioned in the book, they might have a totally different version of events because it's all about perspective.

Amelia Mandeville: I think that's true though isn't it. I think even in life like someone can't say, you know, oh no, that didn't happen. Or you didn't feel that way because it's like, well, yeah, actually from my perspective, it did like, I think life is like that, but yeah, it must be hard. To write an autobiography and then someone be like, oh no, I didn't say it like that. And you're like, well, for me you did. Yeah.

Alice Ashcroft: Because she was so open in that book. And I think, I mean, I'm not comparing myself to Lily Allen, because it's Lily Allen, the queen of pop. But like I think when I write my songs because it's from my perspective, Fergus kind of just accepts that I'm writing it from my perspective. And I think generally if it's a really personal thing, I'll make it vague enough so that people don't actually know what I'm singing about. I sort of making the lyrics sort of relatable to anyone. And I think this is probably one of the most kind of personal songs I've written.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. No, I mean, I've listened. Well, I've listened to nearly all your songs. I think this one is, it's pretty personal. I think I've learned the hard way. Like, because I named characters in my book of people I knew and I thought it was a really nice thing. Because I thought, you know like I was saying like, Oh, Fergus has a song after him. And I thought, well, you know, then my friends can be like, ah, my name was in a book and it will always be out there. But then people then start thinking, am I that character that they've written? And I didn't really ever think that that would happen. I just thought, Oh, it'd be a nice thing. But yeah, it's something you think about because then people like look into things too much and it's hard.

But I don't know, like as a writer, I always write from what, I don't know how it works with writing songs, but I always write from what I've experienced, but it's dramatized. Like it is fiction. I always say this, my novels are fiction, but they are all also inspired by real life. And I don't know. Is it like that with songs? Would you say like the basis is like things gone through, but then do you dramatize it or like change little bits or are some songs just like totally true to the whole thing? I don't know?

Alice Ashcroft: It's probably a combination of everything. So, like with ‘dungarees’ that probably is very true. It's just very much how I feel. But then there's been songs where, and there's, this probably happened more when I was younger when I was very sort of overdramatic as a teenager. But there's like, I wrote a whole song once because someone didn't text me back and I wrote like a whole song like this is the end. Why don't you care about me?

Amelia Mandeville: Love it, that sounds like me. I'm still dramatic like that now.

Alice Ashcroft: But then there are also songs that I've written. Oh, so one song that was on my album called, 'I'm Not Her' which I'm sure you can tell what that's about from the title. That was totally based on fiction. I was reading this book and she was building this all up in her head. She'd been cheated on, she was heartbroken and I was like, Ooh, I need to write a song from this perspective. So, I wrote this song. ‘I'm Not Her’. And it’s so emotional people would ask me like “are you okay”?

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. I know. I think so many people have probably felt like that before though. Like, Oh, why am I not that girl? Why am I not? I think I've even had that little bit, like, I fancy someone who loved someone else. And I was just like, why can't I be them? Oh yeah. That's it.

Alice Ashcroft: Yeah. And so that was totally fictional. It was based on these fictional characters, but it was kind of that feeling like you say, we've all kind of felt it. We all feel jealous to some extent or at least I think everyone does, and if you've never felt that? Wow. But like…

Amelia Mandeville: Lucky person.

Alice Ashcroft: So, you kind of take, like you say, with your writing, you kind of take that feeling and then you amplify it and you dramatize it. But I think each of my songs is different, but I've definitely done the whole overdramatizing. Is that even a word? I keep saying it.

Amelia Mandeville: Over dramatizing, overdramatizing. Would it be? I don't know. And I'm the author gosh. I'm always getting you to check my grammar stuff. I'm like “Alice check this email is okay!” Little would they know I'm the author? Oh gosh. So, I was going to say like, I mean if someone said to me pick a book, I mean, I don't have that many to choose from that I've published, but I would be able to pick my favorite book out for different things. So, if I was to say, what was your favorite song to write? What would you say?

Alice Ashcroft: Favorite song to write?

Amelia Mandeville: So, it doesn't mean like it's your necessarily favorite song or a favorite song to listen to, but to write, like, what was the best one to write for you?

Alice Ashcroft: I think probably, I don't think it's my best song as you say, but I think in terms of the most fun to write was probably a Consequence. Because it's such a sassy song. Like, oh no, actually I'm going to change my answer. There's a song I wrote called, what's it called? I think it's called “I Don't Love You” and it's just so sassy. It's like, “Oh, you think you think we're together? We're not. Get out of my life, I don't love you. I just feel totally indifferent towards you.”

Amelia Mandeville: Is that one on Spotify?

Alice Ashcroft: I think so. Yeah. Well, yeah it is. I'll send you a link. It's just so sassy. And it's like a level of sass I aspire to have, but will never achieve.

Amelia Mandeville: I love it, yeah.

Alice Ashcroft: And that was just so fun to write, to kind of put, myself in the shoes of this kind of overconfident. Not even overconfident, just confident sort of person.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah.

Alice Ashcroft: So that was really fun to write.

Amelia Mandeville: Oh, that's cool. I was going to say like if you're writing, do you sometimes like embody the character then I guess that you're writing from if it is totally finished.

Alice Ashcroft: Yeah, definitely. It's on my last EP, there was one song that I wrote for a friend, and I kind of wrote it from her perspective. I don't think she knows. I wrote it from her perspective. So sorry, if you're listening. But I wrote it from her perspective about this break up. Because I kind of saw, you know, when you see things happen sort of from the outside and you're like, what happened there? But then you hear like so many different perspectives and then you're like, okay, this is such a weird, I maybe I shouldn't be, no, I'm going to say it. So, I put myself in her perspective and I sort of tried to understand what happened to her from her perspective. So yeah, definitely. I sort of put myself in her shoes and went, how would I feel if that was me? Like if I went through that.

Amelia Mandeville: It's almost like it's a therapeutic thing sometimes. Isn't it like to just wow? I guess like, I think so many people have been in that situation, you know, like where you see, I don't know what the situation was, but an example is like that couple that's like the dream couple and then suddenly they break up and everyone's like, Oh, how did that happen? But you don't know what happens behind closed doors.

Alice Ashcroft: But I'm sure you must do that as well. Because like in your last book you wrote about this, these young parents and you're not a parent. So, you sort of put yourself in those shoes, in their shoes to a certain extent.

Amelia Mandeville: I was on Mumsnet like, and then I kind of like, it's just so much research that I ended up thinking I was a mom and I was just like, Oh my gosh. Right. I know what this is. This is, I know what breastfeeding feels like, even though I don't. Gosh, yeah.

Alice Ashcroft: You're either going to be over-prepared or it's going to come as a real shock to you at some point in the future.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. Literally, I was going to say so the people listening won't know this, but you wrote me a song once when I was having a bad time, and I was going to say.

Alice Ashcroft: Which will never be released. Because it was so cheesy.

Amelia Mandeville: I loved it. I had some like quite bad news. It all turned out okay. In the end. Yeah. But Alice wrote me a song to cheer me up and I was like, that's the first person who's ever written me a song. And I was like, wow, is this a thing you do? Do you just like, is it kind of like...

Alice Ashcroft: I think I've only ever done it like once before, but you were like, you were feeling really down. And I was like, okay, what can I do to cheer her up? Because quite often we'll send each other like little motivational messages like; “Good luck, so you've got this”. But you were feeling really down. And I was like, this is it because we'd only been talking for like a couple of months. I felt for the listeners, I feel like my newest relationship has moved very fast.

Amelia Mandeville: It has, we skipped the honeymoon phase. Oh no, no. The honeymoon phase just…

Alice Ashcroft: It's going to last forever.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. It wasn't like we took things steady, you know, look down, you can't see, it sounds like we're in a relationship together.

Alice Ashcroft: We went straight into a fully committed relationship.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Alice Ashcroft: But, with this sort of thing, I sort of wrote this, there is this idea and I was like, Oh, I'll talk about how great it will be. It will be fine. And I was like, this will make a really cute song. And then I sort of wrote it as like this little tune, like very much four chords, just singing what I'd written down. I was like, well, this will be really cute. Is this going to be really intense? If I send this to you, I wrote you a song.

Amelia Mandeville: I loved it. It was like, I thought it's very Lily Allen vibes. It was like.

Alice Ashcroft: I'll take that as the biggest compliment ever.

Amelia Mandeville: I loved it. I thought it was good. And then you sent me a bottle of wine. So, I was just like, oh my gosh, it can't get better than this.

Alice Ashcroft: There you go. That's how I cheer people up is I write them pretentious songs and send them alcohol. So, they think the songs are good.

Amelia Mandeville: I liked it. I thought it was sweet. I've never, I've had that before. I really appreciated it. And unfortunately, I don't write people's stories if they're. I don't like, go “Oh, you've had a bad day here. I'll write your story”. So, I thought it was extra special.

Alice Ashcroft: Thank you.

Amelia Mandeville: Fortunately, I won't be able to repay the favor, I guess I won't be writing you a song.

Alice Ashcroft: Okay. I just expect your next like 10 books to all be dedicated to me.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. I can fit you in. And I won't name a character though. Learned my lesson. Or name a…

Alice Ashcroft: Yeah, I've always, this is the thing. Whenever I watch TV, we're going to have so many tangents, but that's fine. Whenever I watch TV or film or anything like that, I always like look at the villains and I'm always like, that would be so much fun to act like that will be so much like obviously everyone sort of wants to relate to the main character and to relate to like the good guys. But I would if I was going to be an actress, which I don't think I ever would be because I'm not a very good actress, but I would absolutely love to play the villain. I think that would be so fun. So, feel free to name your villains after me, I would be so happy.

Amelia Mandeville: Okay. I actually, quite like writing characters that are flawed to be fair because I don't know. I think everybody is so flawed. Like even, you know, the nicest people are so flawed, but there is something fun for me writing characters that I feel are really far away from me because it's, I don't know, it's more fun.

Alice Ashcroft: It's playing pretend isn't it? It's going back to a child and you get to play pretend.

Amelia Mandeville: Although I say that people might be like, no, these certain characters really like you and I'm like, gosh, no, what am I like?

Alice Ashcroft: I think it's like you say, you pick elements of a kind of who you are. And so, you put that into your books or I put it into my songs and you’re kind of, I think it’s kind of fun to being able to like to pick and choose which bits of yourself you want to show as well.

Amelia Mandeville: What is the like writing the song process for you? I literally don't know how it goes. Is it like lyrics first? Is it tune first? I don't know if that's all right. Is its tune? Is its chorus? Is it like how'd, you know how long it's going to be? Like, I have no idea what the writing process for songs is like.

Alice Ashcroft: I think It's weird because for me it's sort of different every time and this is what I talk to people about on the podcast as well. I'm like, okay, how do you actually go about doing it? Like what's your first step? And so many people have such different approaches. And for me, it totally changes depending on the song. So, my last EP, ‘So, What Next?’ It was five songs and they just kind of fell out of me, like, sort of just poured out of me. Like I didn't think about writing them. I just sort of sat down with a couple of instruments and I just wrote them. And I think because they were things that I've been feeling and thinking for so long that it just sorts of happened. Whereas with the album, that was definitely something that had been on my bucket list.

So, you know, write a book, write an album, do all these different things. And so, I sort of sat down. I was like, okay, what happens at the different stages of relationships. So, I sort of went through and I wrote them down, and then for each of these stages, I wrote a different song about it. So that was kind of a really different thing. Because I sort of sat down to write as opposed to sitting down and seeing what happened. So, I don't know in terms of process, I think sometimes I have an idea for a song in terms of what it's going to be about. Sometimes I get a little tune stuck in my head, think I've come up with the next best hit, and then realize it's something I heard on the radio.

It's just really different, I think for each song, but I don't know what the best is, because each time I come up with a different song, I'm like, Oh, this is the best thing I've written. And then I'll do something else. And I'm like, Oh, actually, no, that last thing wasn't that great. So, I don't know what the best way is, but it's different each time.

Amelia Mandeville: Oh, that's cool. Like, would you say you find writing songs are like, so maybe like if you're feeling sad or you're stressed out, would you turn to write songs as like, almost like a therapeutic thing or is it you've got to be in the right mindset? You've got to feel creative or is it, it just depends?

Alice Ashcroft: Probably a combination of both. I think there have definitely been times where something's happened to me. I feel like I've got over it. I've moved on from it. I sit down to write a song about it and by the end of the session, I'm bawling. So, it's definitely a type of therapy in that, it’s kind of makes you dig things up and deal with them. I guess. But yeah. Then sometimes I'll sort of sit down to write it or if I'm like writing about a character or like something that I've read or something that I've listened to, then I probably get less emotional about it. Because like you say, you're sort of playing pretend you're playing that character. But yes, sometimes it's definitely a form of therapy, like for sure. And a lot cheaper than therapy as well.

Amelia Mandeville: Same with writing. It's like if I write it down, then I don't have to complain about it to other people. And then just hear the same old, same old, Oh gosh. Yeah. Would you say in lockdown, has it been harder or easier to write? Obviously, we're now in another lockdown.

Alice Ashcroft: I don't know. Because I seem to go through phases of writing a lot or not writing anything. And so, I wrote ‘dungarees’ probably just before the first lockdown, but it was kind of around that time. It was just after we got engaged. So between like the end of February lockdown, so probably like a week or two, and then that was around the time that my last EP came out as well. So, I was probably riding the high from that as well.

Amelia Mandeville: Sorry. So, the journey is actually quite long in that, from when you write it to when actually it comes out.

Alice Ashcroft: Yeah. It's I think it changes like each, sometimes I'll write a song, and then I have sort of like a week later like I and Caolan are working on demos for it. And that kind of thing. I say, me and Caolan, I record the vocals, some instruments and then he does all the magic. So, but I'm going to say we.

So yeah, sometimes there's like, I don't know, it was why with the writing process, sometimes I'll write a song in 20 minutes and sometimes it will take me like months to finally figure out how I'm going to do it. And then in terms of the actual, like when I'm happy with it I send Caolan a little voice notes of me playing on the ukulele or guitar and singing along to it and go, “I've got this” and then send him some lyrics. He comes back to me with some sort of like just some keyboard and midi goes, okay, record some proper vocals. And then he comes back to me with these amazing pieces of music and I'm like, wow. He's definitely very talented.

Amelia Mandeville: No, but you need the eyes. Like I keep comparing it to writing. The only thing I know it's like, you need the editor, like, you know, I write the story, but they actually turn that story into something that's publishable. If that makes sense. That actually has the right themes has the right. The length has the right wording, which is something I'm not great at.

Alice Ashcroft: Length is definitely something I struggle with when it comes to music because all my songs always ended up being like two minutes long. And generally, a song needs to be between three and five minutes and all my songs are all really short.

Amelia Mandeville: ‘dungarees’ is a very good length, I would say.

Alice Ashcroft: Yeah, but it kind of came from Caolan going, “Okay, do we have a bridge for this?” And I'm like, “do we have a bridge for it? An excellent question.” And then, but then sometimes I'll write a song and like the bridge will come first. Because I feel like bridges are so fun to write. So, they're kind of that bit between the verse and then sort of the courses at the end, that sounds a little bit different to the rest of the song. Taylor Swift is amazing at them. Like her bridges could like win construction prizes, because they're just like, they're just phenomenal. But yeah, I always either really struggle or really enjoy writing them. But that sort of lengthens out the song and then we'll sort of build-up layers of courses is at the end and that kind of thing. But I always really struggled to write long songs. So, mine were always like too short, which poses, I suppose. I don't know. Maybe I'm just really concise. Let's pretend that's the reason.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. I mean, I think it's hard because you don't want to just add stuff on there unnecessarily for the sake of it, but yeah, I imagine. Yeah. Songs are usually between three and five, aren't they? Oh, so I'm assuming you wouldn't say the lockdown has affected it because I feel like for me, I haven't like barely touched any writing, I've had a few ideas spewing about which you know about and over like I have started writing something, but I feel like even having the more time to write and stuff has almost put me off. I know that sounds really weird, but like, it's almost like the pressure of, Oh, now you're in lockdown. You've had so much time and you should write another book and I'll just be like, Nope, I don't want to do that. It's really weird. And I don't know if that's been the same with you as music.

Alice Ashcroft: Oh no. Yeah. There's definitely like the pressure kind of, because everyone else is using that time effectively, like Taylor Swift just dropping an album out of nowhere and so many different people, just all like, “Oh, we've done this through lockdown.” And all I've done is like a single, which we're so proud of. But also, people are like producing these huge things. And so, it's kind of like, okay, people are making the most of this time, but then like you say, it's being in the right frame of mind as well. So, I think we've both, kind of struggled with the lockdown.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. We've kind of dealt with its kind of similarly, I would say.

Alice Ashcroft: Yeah definitely. I think some people are dealing with it better than others and it's kind of, you’re kind of just have to accept that. Okay. Some people are struggling, some people are making the most of it. Some people are fine. Some people are really hurting and there are all these kinds of different ways of dealing with the situation. And none of them are right. None of them are wrong. It's just, we're all dealing with it differently.

Amelia Mandeville: I think it's not putting pressure on yourself. Like it's not a holiday. It's a pandemic. You don't have to do anything but just try and get through the day or get through the week. Like yeah, I think we got to give credit to ourselves. Would you say you're, are you working on, in fact, I know this answer, but for the people listening, if you're working on anything else, Alice?

Alice Ashcroft: Well, Amelia yeah, so we've been, I say we, again, me and Caolan, have been working together to, I think, produce like a longer EP that should hopefully be coming out spring next year. But I always say that like ‘dungarees’ was meant to be coming out at the beginning of summer and then it came out sort of like mid-autumn so if I say spring, maybe expect it in the summer, but yeah. So, I'm really excited. There's ‘dungarees’ and ‘dungarees II’, which are kind of around the same time, which is, it's almost like going off on a tangent to Dungaree.

So, ‘dungarees’ is all about stuff like finding your home, finding that comfort and then ‘dungarees II’ is all about going actually I'm really comfortable, but I still want to go off and do crazy things. But at least we can do them together. So, it's kind of like a bit of a parallel. So yeah. I don't know what the EP is going to be called. Maybe it'll just be called Dungarees because there are two songs called that on it. But yeah, I'm really excited. And I'm also trying to work really hard to make the songs kind of fit together as well. So, so they'd kind of tell a story, but yeah.

Amelia Mandeville: Have you written all of that?

Alice Ashcroft: I don't think so. I've only written sort of like three or four of the songs.

Amelia Mandeville: Only three or four.

Alice Ashcroft: Yeah. Well, yeah, only three or four, but I don't know how many of them will stay. How many of them will? Well, honestly, ‘dungarees’ and ‘dungarees II’ will make it to the final EP, but I don't know how many of the rest of them will.

Amelia Mandeville: It's just fascinating for me hearing the whole process. Do you think of the titles like the names?

Alice Ashcroft: I'm awful at titles. I'm so bad at coming up with titles too.

Amelia Mandeville: The same. I've never come up with a title.

Alice Ashcroft: So, who comes up with the titles to your books?

Amelia Mandeville: I did come up with titles, but they were really bad.

Alice Ashcroft: Can you tell me some of the working titles for your book?

Amelia Mandeville: Every Color of You was called Dog's Life; don't ask why actually I'll tell you why it's because it was a working title. It was because Zoe, you know, Zoe was saying like, I want a Dog's Life. Dogs, do have short lives, but they live their lives to the fullest. And I guess that's kind of what, like Every Color of You is about living your life to the full. Dog's life really is very misleading. It's not about dogs. I wasn't surprised that one went.

Alice Ashcroft: I guess it's difficult because you kind of need to pick a title. I suppose this is the same with songs as well. You want to pick a title, which sums up. Yeah, it sums up what's in the book, but without giving away what happens in the book and that you understand without having read the book, or song.

Amelia Mandeville: Yeah. So, The Missing Piece of Me, my editor actually gave a working title, which I loved it was Goodbye Girl. And I loved that, but it was too similar to Gone Girl, although I kind of liked it because I was like, maybe people will buy it because they think it's like a sequel to Gone Girl. And then they're like, Oh no, who's this fabulous author. But so yeah, The Missing Piece of Me, but I do kind of like, I would love to actually do a proper title, but it's not my forte. So yeah. I was curious. Do you kind of come up with the titles together? Do you like how you do it?

Alice Ashcroft: I don't know, I am really bad. Maybe in the future, I'll just send the songs to you and ask you to come up with the title.

Amelia Mandeville: Did you just hear me saying I'm really bad at coming up with titles.

Alice Ashcroft: I'll send them to you, Amelia.

Amelia Mandeville: Maybe I'll come up with some really bad titles and then maybe that will make you realize, oh no, this is actually what I want to title it. So maybe it will be a good process.

Alice Ashcroft: I don't know. Like generally I just kind of go for kind of the hook that's in the chorus and just name, it after that. I don't know how I named them. It just kind of like, oh no, this needs a name. What can I call it?